Professor Carse On Religion and Belief
Posted: Tuesday, October 21, 2008
by Gregory Lewis
PopGnosis
Of all my profile interviews, the most stimulating was a series conducted with James Carse, of Rowe, Massachusetts. A graduate of Yale Divinity School, Carse is the retired Professor Emeritus of Religion at New York University.
Our in-person interview sessions always took place at informal country locations, like over breakfast at the Charlemont Inn, or over coffee at McCusker's Market in Shelburne Falls. I was rather fortunate to live in an area with a bumper crop of distinguished individuals, and I count Jim among the most distinguished.
Not what I would call a blind faith believer, Carse considers religion's mystical quality to be pre-eminent. Perhaps he is sympathetic to the human need for mystery, and perhaps that is what I find so fascinating about him, that he sees reality with the ambiguous, fuzzy margins peculiar to some of my favorite Latin American writers, like Gabriel Garcia Márquez and Pablo Neruda. Carse's teachings about the Christian religion are distinctly centrist. To Carse, religion is necessarily open-ended and must remain imprecisely defined.
"The very name, ‘Protestant,' implies conflict," said Jim in April of 2007.
Carse's new book at the time, released in May 2008 was "The Religious Case Against Belief." It sought to dissect two words more commonly used in the same context, "belief" and "religion." The hypothesis was that belief and religion are incorrectly confused as being synonymous.
The first word, belief more often than not comes to us as a subjective imperative, insistent and inflexible. Beliefs can be loosely based in the religion of one's upbringing, but are also shaped by social contributions, not the least of which is the interpretation of doctrine. We see how different beliefs held by people professing to belong to the same religion are a perennial source of frustration and conflict in American society.
"You can say that, in a certain sense, belief has degraded religion," Carse said.
Even Abraham Lincoln, under pressure from Northern and Southern clergy intuitively discerned the difference between belief and religion.
"I am approached with the most opposite opinions and advice, and that by religious men, who are equally certain that they represent the Divine will. I am sure that either the one or the other is mistaken in that belief, and perhaps in some respects both," Lincoln wrote to his friend and counsel Ward Hill Lamond.
Carse nodded his understanding when I read this to him.
"Lincoln was never under any delusion that he was doing the will of God," he said with circumspect.
In Carse's view belief, and not religion, is the source of the divisiveness exacerbated in these past few months of confrontational rhetoric.
"That kind of belief, where you're so certain you'll die for it is fundamentally antithetical to religion," said Carse, "because it has certitude, finality, and clarity."
"I'm interested in that because believers - people who hold beliefs of intensity - are savaging the world at the moment. They're threatening civilization. It's a difficult scene," he said. He was not speaking only of Islamic Jihad, but the extremes of Zionism, and those of Christian Fundamentalism.
On the subject of popular criticism of religion, a la Richard Dawkins, et al, Carse said the very serious mistake is to look at religion through beliefs, on the assumption that by looking at beliefs you've got a clear view of religion.
"What I want to do is invert that, and look at belief through the religious traditions," he explained.
As an example of what he meant, Carse said that if a modern Jew living in Brooklyn could be transported back to a Fourth Century Jewish society, he might be perfectly comfortable. The reason why that might be is because the core doctrine of the Jewish religion has not fundamentally changed, nor has the language used to express that doctrine. Beliefs change; religion, rarely.
For one thousand years the religiously diverse kingdom of India's many faiths got along quite nicely, said Carse. Jain, Hindu, Sikh, Buddhist and Muslim conducted commerce and obeyed the rule of the Rajah as one people. The reason they could do this was by being content within one's own religious tradition, with no compelling need to make others give up their traditions.
"The Hindu's many gods did not trouble the atheistic Buddhist. He was only aware of his own identity within the context of Buddhism," said Carse.
This Article has been viewed 1,482 times. (Not updated in real-time.)
Top-level comments on this article: (5 total)Very interesting Gregory, thanks for sharingPlease log in to respond to this comment.pleasure's all mine, David. Thank you for reading.
- GPlease log in to respond to this comment.
Gregory, Great article! I don’t know who Professor Carse is but from your interview, I like him a lot. One has to be looking at the world as a scary place to be for one to be threatened by other’s beliefs and/or religions. I have never been troubled by other’s beliefs and practices. In fact I’ve found that the more I learn about others’ beliefs and religions, and why they believe/practice what they believe, the more appreciation I have, not just for the “mystery” that is God but my own place in that great mystery. It makes the world more beautiful to my eternally curious disposition. There is just so much to KNOW -- and I don't want to die ignorant!Please log in to respond to this comment.Thanks for reading Christine, it's always a pleasure to read you. Jim Carse is a very nice man, I was lucky to get to know him. Bill Moyers wants to interview him for PBS, I will be on the lookout for that.Please log in to respond to this comment.
Gregory,Excellent piece. I would be interested in what James Carse thinks of the work of James Fowler, theologian who wrote "Stages of Faith." In his work, he makes distinctions between the concept of belief and faith. Philosopher Allan Watts also talked about faith, belief and religion. Watts believed that belief and faith were polar perspectives. "Belief" meaning a "preconceived notion about the way we wish things to be." He defined "faith" as "an unreserved opening to the truth wherever it may be found." Obviously people who hide behind their beliefs, view the world as a frightening place (like many right-wing Christians) and feel the need to defend their beliefs as being right. This then leads to divisiveness and reactionary thinking. However, in my opinion, this type of thinking has nothing to do with the mystery of God. I guess I've been rambling! Thanks again for an articulate article.Please log in to respond to this comment.Hi James,
I'm a long time fan of Alan Watts, especially his book The Way of Zen. Faith is every bit as important a component as Knowledge (capital intended) in our dualistic nature, and the importance of taking a "leap of faith" and living a reality construct where myth and belief in the unknowable is every bit as important as the measurable universe. Somewhere along the way, people tried to impress their personal mythology on everything from the Constitution, to international policy to the education system. That was faith's undoing.
When I talked to Carse, I was consciously careful to avoid an "us" and "them" preposition, so I tended to not ask about his thoughts regarding specific authors, leaving the question at themes and generalities. I tried to extrapolate his personal religious identity based on where his answers to the conversation, and also that I happen to have intersected with his personal life, like hanging out at the same coffee shops and restaurants, etc., so I know something about the man as well as the Academic.
Some of Jim's many acquaintances were as remarkable as himself, like author Norman Mailer, Early Christianity scholar Elaine Pagels, and even the late Joseph Campbell, about whom he had some rather intriguing comments. As I mentioned to Christine in the above post, be on the lookout for a Bill Moyers interview.Please log in to respond to this comment.
G, thank you for the fine introduction of Professor Carse and his beliefs on Religion and Belief to me and others. Your writing is never boring nor your topics mundane. It's a real pleasure reading you.Please log in to respond to this comment.I'm honored that you would say so, Avis, thank you. Wonder what took me so long to find this place.Please log in to respond to this comment.
Buddhists have shared a lot with Hinduism. Even Buddhists have their own Gods and Goddesses who are similar to Hindu forms. One of the most famous is Lokiteswara.
I have one more thought to share. Once the Pharisees entered "Sourashtra" Kingdom which is Gujarat today. They sent a request epistle to the king for permission to allow them to settle down in his territory. The King sent them a cup of milk filled to the brim symbolizing there was no space as they were full already. The Pharisee community head just added some sugar to the milk and sent it back saying "we will be like the sugar in the milk". :-) From then on Pharisees have been living in their own community without disturbing anyone and yet have contributed a lot to the Indian economy.Please log in to respond to this comment.What a great story. As we should know, the Buddhist philosophy is the child of the Hindu religion. I am very fascinated with Hinduism. It is a religion that answers questions about the nature of the universe, as well as human nature. I also love Hindu art, and I believe we can judge the beauty of a religion by the beauty of its art. I am one of those Americans who has an interest in world religions. I blame this on my history teacher when I was 14. He gave us a book to read, "World Religions" and ever since that book I have been a seeker.Please log in to respond to this comment.When you come to India, you will certainly notice a lot of good things as well as bad things. I would always say, leave the mud and just take the gold with you. You will be a guest in our country. :-) Not only guest, there are some people who will treat you as a part of their own family.Please log in to respond to this comment.I'm into the earth, so I will probably want to touch the mud of India, and leave the gold behind.Please log in to respond to this comment.Oh, that was just a metaphor Greg. :-) I meant take good memories with you.Please log in to respond to this comment.Hehe, I knew that DM. I just don't want to be known as the guy who's going to India to take their gold. Spiritual gold, yes.Please log in to respond to this comment.Ha ha! That's a good one.Please log in to respond to this comment.
We want your comments! If you can read this, you don't have javascript enabled, so you can't use this comment system. Please enable javascript.